The Jack Miller Archive

RM: But back to the Sonship the roots of it were, some of the solid roots were that Bob and we were all living together and Bob and Jack started reading Richard Lovelace book, Dynamics in the Spiritual Life. #2:37:1.4#

RM: No anyway two people came up to him afterwards. So one of them was a big sailor and said do you do you mean to tell me I don't have to drink myself into a stupor every night drinking beer to ward off the demons and Jack said yeah this is true, this is really true. And he just believed and and Jesus can help you. The other man was a business man and and and we left Bavuma Island, it was kind of a long trip (inaudible) you had to go south and then you and to get on a boat so he came the next day after they came back this business man and said to Jack you've got to tell me more about this book of Galatians and he said he, his story was that he was in prison under Amin and he was to be executed the next day and there was prison break so he was able to get out of prison and so he so then Jack just thought now. I'm sure the Shepard controversy also got him into the book of Galatians but he began to see it as a power in this man's life and and he came every day for three or four days and finally he turned it over to Bob and said he said I want you to start teaching. But all of that, when he came back from Uganda now probably Paul will tell you this, he he heard you know you'd just have to ask Paul but he he heard a depth in Jack's preaching was different. And and out of a lot of that Paul organized Sonship. #2:40:

RM: He's the, he's the architect behind.. #2:40:19.2#

RM: And then coupled was the fact that people didn't understand the Gospel.

RM: So that's when we went through our first Sonship with about ten people and.

K: When was the first Sonship? #2:41:16.6#

K: Because I thought you were doing, I thought you had organized a lot of the training for people to there was such an interest in Uganda and the church so a lot of people wanted to go.

K: I think initially it was called leadership training wasn't it? #2:42:12

RM: Yes that no it wasn't Sonship.

K: Yeah it was called leadership training and I thought it was to prepare people, sort of weed and prepare people for going to Uganda.

M: But Paul said it wasn’t.. So I've got two, I'm struggling because Dan Macha's said '78, '79, '80. Paul says '83, '84, '85.

K: No no no there was something going on before '83, '85 It was the.

K: But it was called leadership training

RM: But as I said before there was always in Jack's mind, you never, you never the Gospel was about discipling somebody with it without sending them out I mean in his mind there was no disconnect.

K: Yeah yeah. No I think Paul has it wrong. Because I don't, where was Paul I don't think he was part of the, was he part of the church at that time?

B: Sonship started in Uganda.

B: You got a group of people coming together oh here's some notes for what we cooked up the week before.

B: Alan was the first one to put it all together.

K: I think Allen was the first one to put that all together.

RM: Well I think that Paul considers himself the architect.

RM: Of course the way it is now. So you'd actually probably listen to Karen on this one.

B: In Uganda originally. We were handing out individual pieces of paper to people.

B: That even, not even that with tapes. I'm talking about the very early days.

B: There were two there was the very original stuff, then there was the stuff that Allen co-made it and then there was the final stuff that Paul put together that became the standard stuff. So there were three.. #2:52:51.7#

B: In it's worst in some of its worst formulations Sonship program was very reductionistic and Lutheran in that the agent of sanctification was justification by itself. #3:14:22.0#

Location: Bob & Keren & Rose Marie Interview 1